tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7727021600200852360.post9104964919936172422..comments2013-03-31T13:41:35.901-04:00Comments on Ward's Kitchen: California's Proposition 8 TV AdsRick Rockwellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00142022318290956903noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7727021600200852360.post-1778790457181014402008-10-29T12:01:00.000-04:002008-10-29T12:01:00.000-04:00very well said alissa. You make a good point in d...very well said alissa. You make a good point in distinguishing between disapproval and denial of rights.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7727021600200852360.post-89843128033745532972008-10-29T10:42:00.000-04:002008-10-29T10:42:00.000-04:00California educational codes state, pretty explici...California educational codes state, pretty explicitly, that parents/guardians of children in public schools can “opt-out” of any activity that conflicts with religious beliefs (Education code 51240 (education cannot conflict with religions beliefs): http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=28757918355+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve) or instructs about family or health issues, which would include the subject of same-sex marriage (Education code 51513 (parents must be notified in writing before teaching family or health issues, and must give consent): http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=28766718587+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve; Education code 51538 (parents have the right to preclude their children from all sexual health education): http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=28778818875+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve) So yes, it would be illegal for public schools to teach children about same-sex marriage without the consent of that child’s parent or guardian. Proposition 8 never mentions a change to any education codes, meaning that even if the proposition failed, schools would still not be allowed to teach about same-sex marriage unless they get consent from parents. <BR/> You are correct in saying that if prop. 8 fails, some of the stigma of homosexuality will be removed (I object, however, to your use of the word “legalization,” as same-sex is already legal in California, and has been for months. Along a similar vein, since same-sex marriage is already legal, if public schools were going to teach it, wouldn’t they have started by now? Wouldn’t that already be a bigger issue? Just wondering.), however, I’m not quite sure what exactly your point is. I would argue that removing stigma from any minority group would be a good thing, but you are, of course, free to disagree. I’m not asking you to approve a lifestyle, I’m asking you to treat everyone equally under the law. Approval would be nice, but it’s not necessary in order to give people equal rights. Additionally, how do you know so much about the future to say that approval will never happen in this generation? I prefer to remain optimistic.<BR/> This is NOT a religious freedom issue. Not at all, in any way. This is about equality under the law. As I stated before, parents and guardians of children in public schools DO have the option of removing their child from ANY activity that conflicts with their religious beliefs. Churches are not going to lose their tax-exemption, and education codes are not going to change. Religious organizations will not be forced to approve or give same-sex marriages. You are free to believe what you wish a disagree all you like. Prop. 8 does not say any of those things. Same-sex marriage has been legal for months, and nothing has changed. Nothing will change if prop. 8 fails. If, however, it passes, things would change. Discrimination would be written into the California constitution. <BR/> I don’t care if you disagree with same-sex marriage; in fact, I celebrate your right to do so. It’s one of the many things I love about this country – we get to disagree. However, I believe there is a difference between disapproval and denial of rights. A lot of things you probably disagree with are legal. A lot of things I disagree with are legal. Disagreement, however, does not make those laws less valid. <BR/> This is not an educational issue, and it is not a religious freedom issue. It is an issue of equality. If prop. 8 fails, you and everyone else in California can continue leading their lives just as you have been. If it passes, it will change things for a lot of people – it will take away a right they have been fighting for for years.Alissa Schellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086364232858729431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7727021600200852360.post-83621637327364867422008-10-29T00:26:00.000-04:002008-10-29T00:26:00.000-04:00How can you possibly know the future well enough t...How can you possibly know the future well enough to assert, three times at least, that the argument that gay marriage will be taught in schools is false? Once legal, will anyone be surprised if it is taught? I try to be even minded about these things since, even as a pro Prop 8'er, I feel a need to be able to make a rational argument in favor of my position. In my most unbiased moments, I really do believe that once firmly legal, the subject of gay marriage will be taught. Perhaps parents will have an opt-out right, though I'm not sure they will (the concept after all is legal). Legalization will have the effect of removing any stigma, which is exactly what gay rights advocates want, and one of the things Pro 8ers don't. Anti's want approval of their lifestyle. Not just legalization, but approval. That won't happen with this generation and they know it. Pro's don't want their kids subjected to state-sponsored teaching that "either" form of marriage is equal, which will undermine their efforts to teach their children their beliefs. This is a religious freedom issue, and one not about my attitude or any adult opponent to Prop 8 (after all the CA supreme court acknowledged that civil unions have just as many rights as marriages). But it's about who gets to teach the next generation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7727021600200852360.post-82408776473244329742008-10-28T21:18:00.000-04:002008-10-28T21:18:00.000-04:00I'm very concerned that Prop 8 will legalize polyg...I'm very concerned that <A HREF="http://RavagedFaces.com" REL="nofollow">Prop 8 will legalize polygamy.</A>. That's why I'm going to leave things as they are and vote NO on PROP 8.Reamworkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04137843975951715624noreply@blogger.com